"What do you feel about the comparisons some people with BIID make between that and GID/transsexualism, and the connection some people make to Munchauser's Syndrome?"
The comparison with GID is definitely an interesting one on two levels, firstly because both conditions can cause an equal level of suffering and also have a disabling potential to them, in that the sufferer can become unable to function in life. I know of a great many people with GID who have at some point been unable to leave their own homes because they couldn't face the world at large due to their transsexuality and I hear occasional comments from BIID people that say pretty much the same thing.
The main reason BIID and GID are an interesting comparison is in the subject of how they manifest themselves. What's the effect of GID? A strong, possibly disabling, insistence that a person's physical sex is opposite to that of their mental sex; i.e. a condition where the brain tells you you're one thing and your body is another. What's the effect of BIID? A strong, possibly disabling insistence that a person's physical state is different to their mind's 'body image'; i.e. a condition where the brain tells you you're one thing and your body is another.
It's quite possible that they are entirely different disorders that give the same result but it's equally possible (because let's face it, there have been no decent studies of this condition) that they're the same condition manifesting in different ways. The comparison is therefore very interesting.
Munchausen Syndrome, however, is totally unrelated to BIID, in my opinion. I can see why some people would see a similarity but only in the same way as I can see why some people think transsexual people are just "gays who went too far"; i.e. they're ignorant and/or wanting to cause trouble.
In the case of Munchausen Syndrome a person feigns an illness or condition to get attention but someone with BIID emulates a condition in order to seek a release from the symptoms of their condition. I can't think of a single BIID sufferer who wants attention either, in fact the ones I've spoken to seek to be left alone while they go about their business. BIID people seem to have a massive hangup about being spotted and 'outed', so to speak, while emulating their desired condition.
So, in conclusion I'd say any connection with Munchausen Syndrome is a false one and could potentially be offensive, too.
16 comments:
Thank you for that introduction to Munchausen syndrome. I have heard of it before, although I couldn't have told you the name of it, but I have never thought of it in connection with BIID. I guess that's because BIID is so emphatically *not* about drawing attention to onesself. I used to think that BIID was about attention until I realized that where other people figure into my BIID is their *perception* of me, and not about about attention or sympathy. This was reinforced and confirmed when I actually started to do some pretending and found that I had an aversion to sympathy or people who were overly attentive. I want to be perceived as disabled, and I enjoy interacting with others as a disabled person, because it's a relief to be perceived as how I see myself, and it reinforces the pretending experience of living as a disabled person for a time. But as you say, I just want to go about my business. When I'm alone or others are not looking, I still wheel, and I still try to live as much as I can as if I were actually a para.
That said, doing some reading this morning, there seems to be a some difference of opinion as to whether Munchausen is actually about attention. This article [ http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic322.htm ] seems to suggest that it's about a "deep-seated need to be sick" and doesn't mention anything about a need for attention or sympathy. So, from that point of view, it sounds more like an identity disorder and it may be similar to BIID.
Sorry, not sure what happened to that link. The URL to the article on Munchausen is:
http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic322.htm
The link you've given is an interesting one but I have to say the doctor's assertion that Munchausen's is caused by a "deep-seated need to be sick" is not one I've come across before. It's certainly not the description given in the Oxford Handbook of Psychiatry and all this leads me to question it given that I don't see a reference to back up the statement.
I understand that, but that's like saying that BIID doesn't include the desire for anything other than amputeeism because it's not mentioned in any of the "official" literature about BIID. *shrug* If there are differing opinions on something, it is probably not as cut and dry as some people would like to believe.
Second time lucky? I dunno, I posted a comment here and it didn't show...
I think that the comparison to Munchausen is a dangerous one, and it is, sadly, one that has been drawn by one of the only "researcher" well known in BIID circles: Dr. Bruno.
I just hope that they realise some day that GID/BIID have nothing to do with Munchausen.
GID is already well regarded as having nothing to do with Munchausen's. In fact, I don't believe anyone who wishes their career to be taken seriously would contemplate making such a comparison; which is a distinct advantage to transgendered people.
Similarly, comparisons of BIID to Munchausen's are easily refuted with adequate case studies, so all that is required is a decent case study.
"that's like saying that BIID doesn't include the desire for anything other than amputeeism because it's not mentioned in any of the "official" literature about BIID."
I fail to see the similarity between claiming a similarity between two obviously different conditions and defining a condition too exclusively. Can you explain your statement, please?
I'm not saying that BIID is like Munchausen's. If it's about attention, then it's NOT. If, as I read in the link I gave you, it's more about a "deep seated need" than about getting attention, then I see a similarity.
You answered that can't be right because it's "not the description given in the Oxford Handbook of Psychiatry", as if the Oxford Handbook of Psychiatry had all the answers. Is BIID in there?
All I was saying that the official literature can be wrong. It is certainly wrong about BIID! If we believed most of what we read about BIID, neither you nor me have BIID at all.
"If, as I read in the link I gave you, it's more about a "deep seated need" than about getting attention, then I see a similarity."
Munchausen's isn't classified by any kind of need, it's classified by a person's life being centred around the creation of factitious illnesses and diseases. It's a recognised, and potentially dangerous, psychological disorder.
"...as if the Oxford Handbook of Psychiatry had all the answers. Is BIID in there?"
The Oxford Handbook of Psychiatry is a highly respected psychiatric resource with peer review of its definitions. As such it carries far more weight than the opinion of one person.
As for whether BIID is contained within the OHP, I'm sure you already know it isn't. The reason for this is that the OHP covers psychiatric conditions and BIID is not a psychiatric condition.
April, we obviously disagree whether or not BIID is a psychiatric issue or not. But let's put aside that difference for a moment, allow me to play devil's advocate here.
Let's imagine, just for one moment, that it *is* a psychological/psychiatric diorder. Do you think it would be included in the OHP, or any other major tome of psysomethingorother? I doubt it.
Now, let's imagine that it isn't a psych disorder. Then, what is it? Where is it spelled out? In what tome of medicine do you find it? *nowhere*.
And without a reference in any of the medical journal, whether mental of physical or neurological, how are we supposed to get the medical community to give us the treatment we need? (I assume you've read my opinion on cure vs treatment on my site, yes?).
So, let's drop this fight of "it's psychological/it's not psychological". Let's try and find common grounds here, eh? Because as long as we're divided, we're sure as heck not going to receive assistance from anyone.
Sean, if it were a psychiatric disorder it would be a very dangerous one and would therefore definitely be in the OHP. Your statement that it wouldn't leads me to believe you don't know what the OHP is.
Regarding where to find information on it if it's not a psychiatric disorder, that's not the concern here at all. Yes, there's very little information available at present and yes a lot of it is opinionated, ill-informed shit but looking at the big picture, that doesn't change anything.
Regarding getting the treatment we need, the way forward is not to try to get ourselves classified in some way but instead to follow the lead of early transgendered people and seek help through the correct channels.
Yes that's likely to take a long time to achieve but I'd rather spend a lifetime getting doctors to understand and assist us than taking any easy route that ends up fucking over the countless lives of those who come after you.
Such short term gains are worthless with something this important.
I think we BIID suffers need no ICD or an official statement that BIID is an illness. Since 1000 years BIID people take their luck in his own hand and make amputations by themself. So what ? Should we realy need a new illness ? No. In my case I am planing to do my own surgery with the goal getting a spinal cord injury. I weill give blood in my spinal cord in the T 8 earea. Many people world wide did this before and you will see that 0,5 % of the reason getting a spinal cord is unknown. Many doctors and therapists are are living with BIID so that´s one reason why the medcine community (in my opinion a sect like organisation) will never discuss this. Do you realy know how many doctors amputated last years legs and arms because of BIID ? I think more than 100 amputations per year world wide is the right number.
No there is no need to discuss this further on.
I am 40 years old and in some month I will get what my wish was since I am 10. And nobody has the right to say no to this. I am from Germany and there is no evidence that our constitution is against this. We are free people in a free country.
The medcine community is fare away from our post modern time. The are living in the year 1906 if they do not agree to surgery because of BIID.
Just wondering if you plan to continue this blog at some point or not? It's been almost 3 months of checking daily at this point, hoping you post again. :)
Hey April. I asked about this on Sean's site because I know of someone (one of those friend-of-a-friend situations) who seemed to have Munchausen syndrome (she faked cancer). I did some reading about this and another difference I noticed between people with Munchausen and people with BIID is that Munchausen syndrome seems to go along with other psychiatric problems, such as personality disorders. This was the case with the woman I knew of, and also seems to be true for some of the people featured in case studies I've found on the web. These people are very disturbed in lots of complicated ways, and that does not seem to be true for folks with BIID.
Oh, and just to give some context for my interest in this: I'm a mental health counselor and I am also good friends with a transgendered F-to-M. He gave me a list of links so I could read about what it's like to be transgendered, and from there I learned about BIID. It has been an interesting journey.
Why don't you want BIID to be considered psychiatric? I have a psychiatric condition (PTSD), I'm trying to decide if I should be offended or not.
As far as I can tell, 'psychiatric' just means it's diagnosed by self-report of feelings, taking a test and/or observation of behavior rather than the more 'objective' observations of physical signs or lab results or the like. In which case, BIID certainly is psychiatric. It would cease to be as soon as a definitive diagnostic test was available.
I don't want it to be considered 'psychiatric' for the same reason that I don't want homosexuality or transsexualism to be considered 'psychiatric': they're not 'mental conditions', they're not 'mental problems', they're not 'defects' of any kind and they should not be treated as such.
As for them ceasing to be seen as psychiatric when some better tests came along, that's just plain naivety. There are people out there who *still* think being gay is a mental condition, and there are *many* people who think transsexuals are just nuts. I don't see why people with BIID should be similarly stigmatised; and that's exactly what would happen.
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